This is my first VW novel. It took me a bit to adjust to the writing style and the rapid tense changes, but then I understood the flow and dove in. I did print a summary of characters to help sort the rapid introductions in the first few pages. I think my biggest takeaway at this point is how much our perceptions differ from the very people we are interacting with. Peter’s and Clarissa’s internal monologues show how much they don’t know one another nor do they understand how the other feels.
Long time follower, first time commenter. This is, technically, my second read of Mrs. Dalloway, although my first go-around with it was in undergrad, and I can’t say with any confidence that I was able to fully appreciate, or grok it. Yikes! because I had to write an essay imitating Woolf’s style. On a personal note; I’m in my early thirties and was only, just a few years ago, diagnosed with Dyslexia, so it’s been kinda neat to sit with this text again and reflect back on the reader I was then, and now truly enjoy Woolf’s writing in all its richness.
Among other things, the first 42 pages has me thinking a lot about 19th century women’s literature (Jane Eyre, Pride and Prejudice, etc) and the sort of quiet resignation that comes from accepting a life that doesn’t fulfill one’s own desires but instead societal or familial expectations. Jared, your phrasing “empty vessel,” really brought this to mind and I thought that such interesting verbiage. Obviously class is a huge part in influencing those expectations, but what strikes me is the unique way this applies to women at this time; early twentieth century when the vestiges of women’s roles from the previous century linger but women are also entering an intellectual space with men that was previously guarded; there’s an interesting struggle there that I feel is reflected through Clarissa’s character, and the women of the novel generally. Clarissa reads like a clinically depressed person. The overarching question that arises at this juncture for me is (and this isn’t completely developed) ‘who are we when we deny ourselves the life we want to live.’ “Want,” being something central to us as individuals, that originates from an inner knowing about ourselves. Which brings to mind Jared’s last YouTube video about “bullshit jobs.”
This is all probably way off the mark! Neurons are firing near each other and I don’t know that they’re connecting. But, that’s the cool thing about art, it strikes a different match in everyone.
At least that’s what I’m telling myself as I post my first comment.
Raegan, I reread your comment and it is triggering some of my neurons too.
I agree with you that the overarching question of this novel is "who are we when we deny ourselves the life we want to live"; and, as you went on to add, "'Want', being something central to us as individuals, that originates from an inner knowing about ourselves." I see this question as a bridge that connects Woolf's novel with the theme of Jared's blog, "Commonplace Philosophy." After all, what is "commonplace philosophy"? For me, it is essentially a reflective way of life that enables each one of us, as a unique individual, to live life meaningfully, however we define "meaning" for ourselves, as individuals.
I keep thinking about why Woolf decided to write an entire novel about a, dare I say, "common" character as Clarissa Dalloway, who has apparently done nothing extraordinary or "heroic" in her life, and who is doing nothing more than organizing a house party in the story. What do we think about Mrs. Dalloway's way of life? How do we perceive and receive her? Most important, do we believe she leads a "meaningful" way of life? And where does "meaning," if any, come from for Clarissa? I want to go one step further. After WWI, we know from history that the Western world appeared as absurd and meaningless for most artists, musicians, and writers, Woolf included. In that case, we can generalize the overarching question as follow: How can one live meaningfully in a meaningless world? This is the question I've been thinking a lot about whatever I am reading.
Looking forward to hearing more discussions about these important and exciting topics.
I wonder to what extent Clarissa is an autobiographical character. VW suffered from mental health problems throughout her life. In the end she killed herself by drowning.
To start I have wanted to join a book club of some kind for some time and this seems like it will be a perfect community to join. I believe my writing skills are lack luster at best so I hope to improve as time goes on and I love the idea of being exposed to a more philosophical literature.
This book has been challenging to start. It is complicated and extremely verbose which are two things that I have not challenged myself with very often in written formats (I mostly listen to audiobooks). The complicated elements for me include jumping into other peoples memories randomly or into another persons narrative seemingly out of nowhere. This truly confused me for the first 12 pages or so. The other challenge I faced was attempting to read this at a normal pace and I very quickly learned that this is a book that you need to take your time on and really feel the settings that VW paints for you.
Content wise, I have never read any of VW's books before and I want to start out and say that I am very new to reading literature. There seems to me to be a theme of people being stuck in a way or mode of thinking or existing in the world that leaves them to complacency. To me Clarrisa and Septimus both seem to be a little slow to the uptake being in their own world with septimus being the more interesting version of what I see as a "disorder". These two also have interesting love lives in both cases they seem to be either married or in a complicated relationship to people that are very active in the world and in their community. This seems like an interesting parallel that I hope uncovers itself later on in the book. I am curious if Clarrisa is questioning her sexuality after reminiscing of her exchanges with Sally. There seems to be an extreme infatuation with her. Lastly, I thought it rather odd that the people on the street were so shocked to see a car with the shades rolled down driving through the streets. I assume the timeline of the story has a lot to do with it.
I may have written too much but I look forward to more discussion.
Hello! I find it helpful to read a novel piece by piece and to share eventually some thoughts and impressions, thats why I am here.
Its also my first novel by VW, and as a non native speaker I find it difficult to understand. In Order to find a better Access I started listening to the translated audiobook and reread the text. I think beneath the interpersonal and innerpersonal aspects, time, represented by Big Ben, is also an important subject. How does time influence our memories and inner representations ? How does time change a person? It is Not always clear if the descriptions are new or memorized impressions. The present is influenced by the past (and perhaps vice versa?). I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough;)
I've so far loved how the narrative flows from one of our titular characters to the next, making stops along the way, all the while making a seamless almost unnoticeably transition. Its as if the book itself is thinking, going off on tangents, before settling in on things it finds important. Day dreaming to me feels the same. I start off thinking of one thing and make pit stops along the way to my next destination. This style lends itself to feel very atmospheric. As if the book and myself both have our head in the clouds going from one thing to the next. There is a destination in mind but we aren't in any rush to get there.
Yea, I'm finding it to be incredibly artful stream of consciousness that is very reminiscent at times of the ebb and flow of the daydreaming mind. I feel like I'm being taken on a ride of an association train that weaves between the poetic and esoteric and harsh and practical. At the same time, storylines are emerging organically. It's been a very enjoyable read for me so far.
I am mostly finished with Mrs Dalloway. I have read "Flush" before, which is quite delightful. I have also read To The Lighthouse.
This intro posting has made me think that, unlike non-fiction, it makes little sense to discuss fiction without having read the work in its entirety first. You don't embrace a piece of art piece by piece, deconstructing it before you know what it is about. It is like only looking at a piece of a painting without seeing the whole first. This is art, not logical argument.
In school, this all alleviated by the teacher - they have read the work, likely multiple times, and are guiding the discussion, identifying important themes and drawing attention to them, noting foreshadowing, calling out particularly important style elements, etc.
I am still planning on enjoying our discussion, but it will be a bit weird.
You raise some interesting points that I had not considered. I believe stylistically the book was cutting edge in how it switches points of view. I also am struck by how set in place and time (London, 1920s) it is. Class is also a big theme.
This is my first VW novel. I am actually in the process of reading Gravity's Rainbow and thought this novel would break the monotony. However - it has proved incredibly challenging and demanding with the stream of consciousness carrying me away in a powerful rush.
A few things do stand out to me - for one I think the predominant themes that are addressed in the book are death and the passage of time.
We see the first in the constant reference to the striking of Big Ben - an innocuous event at first but one that occurs again and again in the novel - with an increasing sense of urgency as we progress.
Death is ever present - a woman watching the car enter the royal palace is holding a child who is alive but appears to be dead , Septimus muses onndeath , Bradshaw is described with "Grey's" and even Peter Walsh is referred to as the " dead man" by Septimus.
So time and mortality. What else ?
I think this novel is also about the beauty of humanity and empathy. There is a depth to everyone - everyone caught up in the spool of their own sorrows and worries - sometimes these worries overlap but people aren't aware. In a bustling city like London people cross others in the streets blissfully unaware of the depth of beauty and imagination and sorrow contained in the people walking past them.
I think your reading is particularly astute and it was something I didn't pick up on myself. I like the concept of the "lectio divina" and I would like to use it when I read further in this book.
This is also my first time reading Woolf, even though I have read the works of many of her famous contemporaries--T.S. Eliot, E.M. Forster, Ezra Pound, James Joyce, etc. As a result, I am somewhat familiar with her participation in the efforts of the Modernist Movement to create a new form of literary expression that is adequate to addressing the absurdity and inhumanity that the world (at least the Western world) experienced during WWI. So far, I love what I've read, so much so that I am already looking forward to reading more by Woolf after "Mrs. Dalloway." It is tough going; I can only read perhaps 4 or 5 pages at a time. As soon as my concentration strays, I must stop; otherwise I'll just be reading nonsense. I find myself rereading the same sentence or passage again and again just to keep track of what's going on; but at the same time I find such repetitions extremely pleasurable.
I've been thinking a lot about Jared's comment that he finds Clarissa Dalloway an "empty vessel." I would like to offer an alternative view. Not only do I not find Mrs. Dalloway an empty vessel, but, from the very first paragraph on, I find her (vessel) to be filled to the brim! In fact, her vessel (or consciousness) overflows continuously, in the sense that her whole being is filled with life and she is always attuned to the people and world around her. Isn't this what we now call "mindful living" or living "in the present"? Just on the first page, Woolf employs phrases such as "what a morning," "What a lark! What a plunge!" and "How fresh, how calm....the air was in the early morning". These phrases sound and feel full of life, and they reflect Mrs. Dalloway's attitude towards the people and the world of which she is a part. On the second page, she says she loves the people in London, in spite of (or because of) the surface chaos and cacophony, because "they love life." A few lines on, Woolf writes that "in the triumph and the jingle....was what she loved: life; London; this moment of June" and "waves of that divine vitality which Clarissa loved." There are numerous other examples.
I want to highlight another point because I think it is crucially important. While she was looking into a shop window, this is what Clarissa had in mind: "Did it matter then, she asked herself....that she must inevitably cease completely; all this must go on without her; did she resent it; or did it not become consoling to believe that death ended absolutely? but that somehow in the streets of London, on the ebb and flow of things, here, there, she survived". How could Mrs. Dalloway be an "empty vessel" if she was pondering the meaning of life and of death even when she was just window-shopping? On the contrary, Mrs. Dalloway is a "modern heroine" in my mind. Her passion for life is her philosophy, her way of life.
I apologize for rambling on and on, but this is exactly why I am falling in love with this book and with Virginia Woolf. She has packed so much into just a few pages. I am so glad that this forum exists for us to share our ideas and feelings about philosophy and literature. Thank you.
It's been a while since I read a classic, and as a non-native speaker, I find Mrs. Dalloway a bit difficult to follow. To make the experience easier, I listened to the audiobook while following along with the written text. I hope this approach will help me better understand the book's stylistic choices in presenting its events and the characters' thoughts.
Jared, can you clarify two things for me before we get deeper into the story? First, is there any particular reason why you picked "Mrs. Dalloway" over "To The Lighthouse" even though the latter is commonly considered Woolf"s highest achievement? Second, what role do you see yourself playing in this read-along process--a discussion group facilitator or a reader who is exploring a new book with the rest of us? I'm just looking for guidance in deciding what to share. Thanks.
This is my first VW novel. It took me a bit to adjust to the writing style and the rapid tense changes, but then I understood the flow and dove in. I did print a summary of characters to help sort the rapid introductions in the first few pages. I think my biggest takeaway at this point is how much our perceptions differ from the very people we are interacting with. Peter’s and Clarissa’s internal monologues show how much they don’t know one another nor do they understand how the other feels.
Printing a summary of characters would have helped me - great idea. I read, re-read and then re-read again the beginning paragraphs to get oriented.
Hi all,
Long time follower, first time commenter. This is, technically, my second read of Mrs. Dalloway, although my first go-around with it was in undergrad, and I can’t say with any confidence that I was able to fully appreciate, or grok it. Yikes! because I had to write an essay imitating Woolf’s style. On a personal note; I’m in my early thirties and was only, just a few years ago, diagnosed with Dyslexia, so it’s been kinda neat to sit with this text again and reflect back on the reader I was then, and now truly enjoy Woolf’s writing in all its richness.
Among other things, the first 42 pages has me thinking a lot about 19th century women’s literature (Jane Eyre, Pride and Prejudice, etc) and the sort of quiet resignation that comes from accepting a life that doesn’t fulfill one’s own desires but instead societal or familial expectations. Jared, your phrasing “empty vessel,” really brought this to mind and I thought that such interesting verbiage. Obviously class is a huge part in influencing those expectations, but what strikes me is the unique way this applies to women at this time; early twentieth century when the vestiges of women’s roles from the previous century linger but women are also entering an intellectual space with men that was previously guarded; there’s an interesting struggle there that I feel is reflected through Clarissa’s character, and the women of the novel generally. Clarissa reads like a clinically depressed person. The overarching question that arises at this juncture for me is (and this isn’t completely developed) ‘who are we when we deny ourselves the life we want to live.’ “Want,” being something central to us as individuals, that originates from an inner knowing about ourselves. Which brings to mind Jared’s last YouTube video about “bullshit jobs.”
This is all probably way off the mark! Neurons are firing near each other and I don’t know that they’re connecting. But, that’s the cool thing about art, it strikes a different match in everyone.
At least that’s what I’m telling myself as I post my first comment.
Cheers!
Raegan, I reread your comment and it is triggering some of my neurons too.
I agree with you that the overarching question of this novel is "who are we when we deny ourselves the life we want to live"; and, as you went on to add, "'Want', being something central to us as individuals, that originates from an inner knowing about ourselves." I see this question as a bridge that connects Woolf's novel with the theme of Jared's blog, "Commonplace Philosophy." After all, what is "commonplace philosophy"? For me, it is essentially a reflective way of life that enables each one of us, as a unique individual, to live life meaningfully, however we define "meaning" for ourselves, as individuals.
I keep thinking about why Woolf decided to write an entire novel about a, dare I say, "common" character as Clarissa Dalloway, who has apparently done nothing extraordinary or "heroic" in her life, and who is doing nothing more than organizing a house party in the story. What do we think about Mrs. Dalloway's way of life? How do we perceive and receive her? Most important, do we believe she leads a "meaningful" way of life? And where does "meaning," if any, come from for Clarissa? I want to go one step further. After WWI, we know from history that the Western world appeared as absurd and meaningless for most artists, musicians, and writers, Woolf included. In that case, we can generalize the overarching question as follow: How can one live meaningfully in a meaningless world? This is the question I've been thinking a lot about whatever I am reading.
Looking forward to hearing more discussions about these important and exciting topics.
I wonder to what extent Clarissa is an autobiographical character. VW suffered from mental health problems throughout her life. In the end she killed herself by drowning.
To start I have wanted to join a book club of some kind for some time and this seems like it will be a perfect community to join. I believe my writing skills are lack luster at best so I hope to improve as time goes on and I love the idea of being exposed to a more philosophical literature.
This book has been challenging to start. It is complicated and extremely verbose which are two things that I have not challenged myself with very often in written formats (I mostly listen to audiobooks). The complicated elements for me include jumping into other peoples memories randomly or into another persons narrative seemingly out of nowhere. This truly confused me for the first 12 pages or so. The other challenge I faced was attempting to read this at a normal pace and I very quickly learned that this is a book that you need to take your time on and really feel the settings that VW paints for you.
Content wise, I have never read any of VW's books before and I want to start out and say that I am very new to reading literature. There seems to me to be a theme of people being stuck in a way or mode of thinking or existing in the world that leaves them to complacency. To me Clarrisa and Septimus both seem to be a little slow to the uptake being in their own world with septimus being the more interesting version of what I see as a "disorder". These two also have interesting love lives in both cases they seem to be either married or in a complicated relationship to people that are very active in the world and in their community. This seems like an interesting parallel that I hope uncovers itself later on in the book. I am curious if Clarrisa is questioning her sexuality after reminiscing of her exchanges with Sally. There seems to be an extreme infatuation with her. Lastly, I thought it rather odd that the people on the street were so shocked to see a car with the shades rolled down driving through the streets. I assume the timeline of the story has a lot to do with it.
I may have written too much but I look forward to more discussion.
Hello! I find it helpful to read a novel piece by piece and to share eventually some thoughts and impressions, thats why I am here.
Its also my first novel by VW, and as a non native speaker I find it difficult to understand. In Order to find a better Access I started listening to the translated audiobook and reread the text. I think beneath the interpersonal and innerpersonal aspects, time, represented by Big Ben, is also an important subject. How does time influence our memories and inner representations ? How does time change a person? It is Not always clear if the descriptions are new or memorized impressions. The present is influenced by the past (and perhaps vice versa?). I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough;)
I've so far loved how the narrative flows from one of our titular characters to the next, making stops along the way, all the while making a seamless almost unnoticeably transition. Its as if the book itself is thinking, going off on tangents, before settling in on things it finds important. Day dreaming to me feels the same. I start off thinking of one thing and make pit stops along the way to my next destination. This style lends itself to feel very atmospheric. As if the book and myself both have our head in the clouds going from one thing to the next. There is a destination in mind but we aren't in any rush to get there.
Yea, I'm finding it to be incredibly artful stream of consciousness that is very reminiscent at times of the ebb and flow of the daydreaming mind. I feel like I'm being taken on a ride of an association train that weaves between the poetic and esoteric and harsh and practical. At the same time, storylines are emerging organically. It's been a very enjoyable read for me so far.
I think organic is such a good word here because at no time does the transition from one narrative to the next feel forced or in any way jarring.
I totally agree. Going with the flow of reality, so to speak. :-)
I am mostly finished with Mrs Dalloway. I have read "Flush" before, which is quite delightful. I have also read To The Lighthouse.
This intro posting has made me think that, unlike non-fiction, it makes little sense to discuss fiction without having read the work in its entirety first. You don't embrace a piece of art piece by piece, deconstructing it before you know what it is about. It is like only looking at a piece of a painting without seeing the whole first. This is art, not logical argument.
In school, this all alleviated by the teacher - they have read the work, likely multiple times, and are guiding the discussion, identifying important themes and drawing attention to them, noting foreshadowing, calling out particularly important style elements, etc.
I am still planning on enjoying our discussion, but it will be a bit weird.
You raise some interesting points that I had not considered. I believe stylistically the book was cutting edge in how it switches points of view. I also am struck by how set in place and time (London, 1920s) it is. Class is also a big theme.
Cheers,
David
This is my first VW novel. I am actually in the process of reading Gravity's Rainbow and thought this novel would break the monotony. However - it has proved incredibly challenging and demanding with the stream of consciousness carrying me away in a powerful rush.
A few things do stand out to me - for one I think the predominant themes that are addressed in the book are death and the passage of time.
We see the first in the constant reference to the striking of Big Ben - an innocuous event at first but one that occurs again and again in the novel - with an increasing sense of urgency as we progress.
Death is ever present - a woman watching the car enter the royal palace is holding a child who is alive but appears to be dead , Septimus muses onndeath , Bradshaw is described with "Grey's" and even Peter Walsh is referred to as the " dead man" by Septimus.
So time and mortality. What else ?
I think this novel is also about the beauty of humanity and empathy. There is a depth to everyone - everyone caught up in the spool of their own sorrows and worries - sometimes these worries overlap but people aren't aware. In a bustling city like London people cross others in the streets blissfully unaware of the depth of beauty and imagination and sorrow contained in the people walking past them.
I think your reading is particularly astute and it was something I didn't pick up on myself. I like the concept of the "lectio divina" and I would like to use it when I read further in this book.
This is also my first time reading Woolf, even though I have read the works of many of her famous contemporaries--T.S. Eliot, E.M. Forster, Ezra Pound, James Joyce, etc. As a result, I am somewhat familiar with her participation in the efforts of the Modernist Movement to create a new form of literary expression that is adequate to addressing the absurdity and inhumanity that the world (at least the Western world) experienced during WWI. So far, I love what I've read, so much so that I am already looking forward to reading more by Woolf after "Mrs. Dalloway." It is tough going; I can only read perhaps 4 or 5 pages at a time. As soon as my concentration strays, I must stop; otherwise I'll just be reading nonsense. I find myself rereading the same sentence or passage again and again just to keep track of what's going on; but at the same time I find such repetitions extremely pleasurable.
I've been thinking a lot about Jared's comment that he finds Clarissa Dalloway an "empty vessel." I would like to offer an alternative view. Not only do I not find Mrs. Dalloway an empty vessel, but, from the very first paragraph on, I find her (vessel) to be filled to the brim! In fact, her vessel (or consciousness) overflows continuously, in the sense that her whole being is filled with life and she is always attuned to the people and world around her. Isn't this what we now call "mindful living" or living "in the present"? Just on the first page, Woolf employs phrases such as "what a morning," "What a lark! What a plunge!" and "How fresh, how calm....the air was in the early morning". These phrases sound and feel full of life, and they reflect Mrs. Dalloway's attitude towards the people and the world of which she is a part. On the second page, she says she loves the people in London, in spite of (or because of) the surface chaos and cacophony, because "they love life." A few lines on, Woolf writes that "in the triumph and the jingle....was what she loved: life; London; this moment of June" and "waves of that divine vitality which Clarissa loved." There are numerous other examples.
I want to highlight another point because I think it is crucially important. While she was looking into a shop window, this is what Clarissa had in mind: "Did it matter then, she asked herself....that she must inevitably cease completely; all this must go on without her; did she resent it; or did it not become consoling to believe that death ended absolutely? but that somehow in the streets of London, on the ebb and flow of things, here, there, she survived". How could Mrs. Dalloway be an "empty vessel" if she was pondering the meaning of life and of death even when she was just window-shopping? On the contrary, Mrs. Dalloway is a "modern heroine" in my mind. Her passion for life is her philosophy, her way of life.
I apologize for rambling on and on, but this is exactly why I am falling in love with this book and with Virginia Woolf. She has packed so much into just a few pages. I am so glad that this forum exists for us to share our ideas and feelings about philosophy and literature. Thank you.
It's been a while since I read a classic, and as a non-native speaker, I find Mrs. Dalloway a bit difficult to follow. To make the experience easier, I listened to the audiobook while following along with the written text. I hope this approach will help me better understand the book's stylistic choices in presenting its events and the characters' thoughts.
Jared, can you clarify two things for me before we get deeper into the story? First, is there any particular reason why you picked "Mrs. Dalloway" over "To The Lighthouse" even though the latter is commonly considered Woolf"s highest achievement? Second, what role do you see yourself playing in this read-along process--a discussion group facilitator or a reader who is exploring a new book with the rest of us? I'm just looking for guidance in deciding what to share. Thanks.
Think of it as a mix of both. Clearly, I’m guiding the discussion, but I’m also reading it with you (in this case, for the first time).
As for why I chose Mrs Dalloway: I knew I wanted to read Woolf, and I asked around about Woolf’s more philosophical themes and novels.